To gi, or not to gi, that is the question - Whether tis Nobler on the mat to suffer the slings and taunts of outraged Opinion or to take an arm against the Sea of Doubters and whether to by grip or hook end them?
Sorry Will, had to do it. The question of which is superior, gi no gi feels like it goes back centuries. I say this because the positions on each side are so hardened, so steadfast they must have taken centuries to set. I have trouble seeing it.
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| No-Gi? |
I’ve done No-gi grappling for years, but I’m a complete novice at Gi. I had no appreciation the effect a few pounds of fabric could have on the way a match could be conducted. And it was the dawning of my awareness that prompted me to ask Jason Dent if I could do something for the GR blog on the subject. He said yes, provided we included something more (substantial) than my ramblings. To that end he contacted several Black Belts asking them to contribute their opinions on the subject. Jorge Pereira, James Terlecki, Donald Park, Dustin Ware, Pablo Castro, Jeff Starr and Jason Dent were all kind enough to reply.
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| Gi? |
To my ignorant eye Gi and Nogi are very nearly different sports. Granted both use mostly the same attacks and mostly the same defenses; only the details are different. But as Hamlet discovered, the Devil lives in the details. And in all of life, it’s mastery of detail that makes champions.
The big difference between Gi and No-gi, for me, is friction, which is ironic on many levels, but let’s stick to physics. The heavy gi fabric slows the action. It’s harder to apply a move but at the same time, it’s much easier to grip your partner and maintain position. It requires patience and planning. Options can be left open to exploit or abandon later, the match takes on it’s own life and pace. Strategy is based on layers of complexity and a deep knowledge of how one move transitions to another. No-gi, is faster. Moves must be applied quickly to have any chance of success. Strategy is based on rapid strikes and exceeding the ability of your partner to keep up. The game may seem shallower, but that would be a mistake. Positions are difficult to maintain but transitions impossible in Gi can be achieved in No-gi.
It’s traditional at this point in an article like this to insert a water metaphor. So I will. Imagine a stream: No-gi is a rapid, the stream tumbling and breaking over rocks as it rushes. Gi is the same stream at flood. Heavy with water, the surface flows smoothly, but the same rocks are below creating irresistible currents that trap the unwary.
In truth, in the mind of the players, the level that counts, Gi runs as quickly as No-gi. In both, the players are sorting through options, discarding and selecting on how well they believe the available moves will advance them to their goal (be it submission or advantage win). I do find Gi more difficult, but that may be only my inexperience (and profound lack of talent) talking. I am certain however, that familiarity with the deep strategic thinking required of Gi, will only advance the game of the No-gi player, and the transition opportunities opened up by the occasional use of No-gi technique can only deepen the vocabulary of the dedicated Gi player.
Below are the responses of the Black Belts/Fighters presented in alphabetical order by last name.
Pablo Castro: Gi and nogi is like sugar and salt. By itself each has an importance to our palate and for the most part they taste good. If worked together properly they complement each other, and can make each other taste better... One is not better than the other, they are just different. Gi helps you with technique; utilizing the gi, grips and control. Nogi allows you to use technique similar to gi in an alternative way, while utilizing its own unique techniques respectively. The gi sometimes allows you to slow the bigger or more athletic person, while focusing on technique. Nogi at times requires you use your technique at a faster pace, with less or different control. Although, we all have our own preference, they both are beneficial.
Jason Dent - First and foremost I just want to say that it really depends on your reasons for training. I mean you could be training just for the fun of it, you could be training for self defense, you could be training for sport Jiu-Jitsu, you could be training for MMA fights, the list goes on. There is nothing wrong with going about it in different ways but each path has a slightly different outcome. I will say that if you want the most out of Jiu-Jitsu you should definitely train in a gi because it will give you chance to learn to both the gi as well as adapt some nogi plus you will be able to work on your rank as well.
In my opinion the biggest but easiest differences are: submissions/positioning defense has to be better to get out of attacks when competing in a gi, and your submission offense has to be spot on to catch guys nogi when you're sweaty and competing at a faster pace.
Well obviously from my previous statements I understand/respect/know the importance of both Gi and NoGi but having spent the majority of my time/career cross training/competing both as an amateur and professional in Jiu-Jitsu tournaments, Muay Thai bouts and MMA fights, I made NoGi my priority/preference. Ultimately it worked out for me as I still currently hold the most submission wins professionally of any UFC veteran in the state of Ohio. I hold 22 career wins professionally and of those wins 16 are by submissions. Now that I'm nearing the end of my MMA career I find myself having more time for training in a Gi and I look forward to fulfilling the goal I set out on so long ago of obtaining my Black Belt.
Robin Giesler: "I believe the gi is essential to gaining a full understanding of jiu-jitsu. It slows things down at the beginning and makes the game more technical. Clothing is an under utilized weapon in self defense. However I do believe those who are training for MMA only do not necessarily need it. MMA is a sport where you cannot wear the gi so there is no advantage other than a personal one for the modern athlete."
Donald Park: This is a question that has become more relevant in recent years. For many of us who came up the ranks over a decade ago, it was irrelevant. We only trained Jiu-Jitsu because it was proven to be the best art in a fight (if you were constrained to choosing only one). Because of this, we only trained Jiu-Jitsu in order to be able to defend ourselves or to fight (professionally or otherwise). So, our training (whether in the gi or not) was always the same – learn to clinch and take down your opponent, defend against strikes, use technique and leverage to overcome your opponent. We trained in a gi all the time, as we viewed it as being the best training tool for Jiu-Jitsu. We’d train no-gi, too, but viewed this in the same way that we viewed training with people from other styles, or heavier people; it was just a way to keep things realistic and ensure we were prepared.
Today, people train Jiu-Jitsu for many reasons and those reasons are now characterized by deep specialization. People aren’t exclusively training for fights – they’re training for Jiu-Jitsu competitions or no-gi competitions, and for MMA.
In my opinion, regardless of what your goals are, if you want Jiu-Jitsu to be a foundational aspect of your self-defense or fighting style, you need to train in the gi; there is no better way to become excellent at Jiu-Jitsu. But you must combine this with a deep philosophical understanding that you cannot rely on the gi in your training, and this is key – use the gi as a tool, not a crutch. Train with and without the gi consistently and get the best of both worlds. If you want to complement your game with Jiu-Jitsu, I think it’s not required to wear the gi – train the way you would fight. But in the end, I think training with the gi is the best way to learn Jiu-Jitsu completely. I train a broad spectrum of students, from current UFC contenders to recreational players of all ages, and I have never met anyone who would say that their gi training hasn’t helped their overall development.
Jorge Pereira - I like the Jiu Jitsu way. A lot of GI where born the technic ! And No GI , of course , because you have to know to adapt your Jiu Jitsu for the Vale Tudo Combat. I believe that just No GI limit a lot your vocabulary ! It is like that , if you see the Bigger pic , you will understand better the smaller. But the opposite is impossible.
Jeff Starr - To gi or not to gi I think it is important to do both since they both play a role in martial arts particularly in ground fighting. Training without a gi is necessary for many reasons, such as your grips can be different and it can be a faster game. While it is not necessary to wear a gi to develop a ground fighting game the gi has many benefits. If you look at the gi as a training tool like the tools used in other martial arts or sports, it becomes easier to see the value of the gi. For example, the boxer uses the speed bag for rhythm and timing or a football player will use tires for agility or a tackling sled for power but these tools are not used in the actual fight or match. In the same way a ground fighter can use the gi, among other things, to develop a more solid structure or base. However, the gi is not necessarily needed in a match or fight. The hidden skills that the gi helps you develop can be a big part of your game. In conclusion if the gi can be used as a tool to bring your ground fighting skills to a higher level, why not use it?
Dan Swift - To gi or not to gi, that is the question. Well that would depend on your goal in training. If your goal is to be an mma fighter, then only train no gi. If you want to train for self defense then train both. If you're only training for fun then decide what you like better and do that.
My jiu jitsu training the past 15 years has been both lucky and unlucky. It's been unlucky cause I have never had the advantage that most have now a days in having a legit black belt instructor with me day in and day out. So because of that I've been lucky enough to get my jiu jitsu training from so many different and great instructors. They were all influenced in different ways and all had different ideas on both gi and no gi training. This has given me many different aspects of the life long debate over gi vs no gi. So here's my take on it. It is 2 completely different sports. I really don't understand how there could possibly be a debate about it. I really think this whole debate started cause in America wrestling is such a huge sport. When you went to a tournament 10 or more years ago the no gi division was always much larger than the gi division. So to push people into training in the gi I think they have been brain washing people into thinking you have to train in the gi to become better at no gi which is complete hog wash. Now a days the gi division has gotten much bigger and is pretty much the same size as the no gi divisions. So the theory they brain washed you into thinking has worked. If anything, training no gi would actually make you better at gi, if you have to say one has more of an effect on the other which I will explain later.
There are many sports that are similar but still very different for example freestyle wrestling and judo both similar in the fact that one wears a gi and the other doesn't. They both have similar take downs and throws but both are different sports. You don't see freestyle wrestlers wearing judo gis to become better wrestlers. Ping pong and tennis are both similar sports. They both have a net and the idea is the same to score points. Being a great ping pong player doesn't make you a great tennis player, vice versa. In my opinion there are some advantages and disadvantages or I might just call them differences of training both. The advantages or differences of training gi are such. There are less injuries cause it slows things down and leg attacks are few. It's more structured cause of the belt system. You know to go from white belt to blue belt you have to be able to do abc and d and to go from blue to purple belt you have to be able to do efg and h and so on. There are more techniques because of the cloth which can make you have to think more about what someone can do to you from each different position.. So there are many more ways someone can attack you.
Now the advantages or differences in training no gi are basically the opposite of gi training. There are more injuries because it's faster and there are a lot of leg and ankle attacks. It's less structured cause there is really no path on how to get better. You just work on whatever the class is going over that day. So there's no real direction. Now comes the is the glass half empty or half full part of my take on this debate. I hear people say "training gi makes your no gi game better." Why? Not every grip in gi will work in no gi but every no gi grip will work in gi. Not every submission that you do in the gi will work in no gi but every submission in no gi will work in the gi. So tell me again how training gi will make my no gi game better? I kinda feel like training no gi translates to gi much better than the opposite. I also hear people say" well gi is so much more technical than no gi." Really??? I kinda feel like no gi is more technical. When someone is dripping in sweat and you can't hold on to them but still have to be able to pull off a submission on them, I'd say you gotta be pretty technical to have that sub so precise and tight that they still don't get out while being a slippery wet willy, lol! Also how tough is it to submit someone when you have something to grab onto and hold them?
I just pretty much played devil's advocate there with some of the pro gi ideas I've heard thrown around. Me personally I don't do mma anymore. So I enjoy training both gi and no gi and competing in grappling tournaments as much as physically possible at my age and with all the injuries I have. Lol, my opinion is usually a little bit more morbid than most. I just hope you enjoyed my take on the subject. I would like to thank Jason Dent for allowing me to be a part of this article. I would also like to thank Jorge Gurgel and Jon Stutzman for being my role models in jiu jitsu and mma. Without them I wouldn't be half the grappler I am today.
James Terlecki - To gi or not to gi? I guess it depends on what your specific goals are. If your goal is to be an MMA fighter than I would say that you should do a majority of your training without the gi. Some will argue that training in the gi makes you more technical when you switch over to no-gi, but does it? The real question becomes, "If Roger Gracie was cloned from birth and his clone trained just as hard, put in just as many hours and received just as good instruction, who would win? I would argue that the clone who trained without the gi would win. Why? Because he has spent 100% of his time and energy developing his grips, submission set ups, takedowns, sweeps , positional control and mindset for the no-gi game. Roger, on the other hand, has spent a majority of his time developing his gi game, so when he takes the gi off he has to adapt his technique(s) to make thing work for his no-gi game. Does this mean that training in the gi is not beneficial for the MMA practitioner? No, I believe it is because it slows the game down and forces you to rely on technique and not your athletic ability, speed and/or power. Also, there are more injuries when training no-gi because of the speed of the game. Training in the gi is slower and therefore, is less taxing on the body, which is a huge benefit for the MMA fighter because they are always battling injury.
Dustin Ware - As a student, competitor, and Academy owner… I am frequently asked by new and sometimes more experienced students what is more effective or beneficial… "Training with or without the Gi?"
To give a short and simple answer would be just that… Short and simple! However, I feel that this question is too often given a 'short answer', but doesn't really explain why that particular answer is given.
So, my answer is YES...it is absolutely essential for anyone that is wanting to be considered a true student of any "submission-based Grappling system"… To learn how to do so in the Gi!
When I initially started training "Grappling" back in 1998 in Huntington, WV… I really didn't see the difference between Gi or No-Gi… Much less if there was an advantage of learning one over the other.
I really didn't have aspirations of going into mixed martial arts (called "no holds barred" at the time). Being a former athlete, I loved the competitive nature that grappling provided, as well as the camaraderie that was gained from this type of training environment.
Over the next 5 years, I had the opportunity to train in a situation where everyone was pretty much on the same page in terms of experience and skill… However, there were some exceptions where I had the opportunity to learn and compete against people literally half my size.
I quickly learned that my athleticism, size, or strength alone could only get you so far.
The turning point for me was in July 2003 at a No-Gi competition in Huntington Beach, CA. I lost a decision to a competitor who that was in no way stronger, bigger, more athletic.
However, what he had was a much better understanding of technique, angles, leverage, & functional movement.
See, I was always told that the formula for "Gi Vs No-Gi" was simple:
NO-GI Success = size, strength, speed!
GI Success = technique, angles, leverage
I mean, based on that formula… I "should have" won easily!!!
- my match was No-Gi.... CHECK!
- allowed for many more submission attacks.... CHECK!
- I was much stronger/ larger than my opponent.... CHECK!!!
So the only real "advantages" he had were based on the principles that should have only been effective while competing in the Gi.
Hmmm.... Maybe there was more to the importance of Gi training to improve your OVERALL Grappling ability!!!
Within the next year, I began teaching at a new school, and many of my students were starting from square one. I focused 90% of my class time on Gi training only.
Not only did I find that my students enjoyed this type of Grappling just as much is No-Gi training… I saw firsthand their ability, knowledge, and skill progressed at a much more elevated pace than had they only been training in the No-Gi or compared to students who were only participating in No-Gi classes.
Obviously, this further strengthened my newfound opinion on the importance of Gi training.
In closing, in 2007, I attended a seminar in which I received one last opinion that solidified my teaching methods and made me realize that what I've learned a few years earlier was at least on the right path.
While attending the seminar, one of the participants asked the seminar host a question , "When you were training for a fight, do you train only No-Gi?"
The seminar host paused for a moment, and said that without question he spends 90% of his training IN THE GI before every one of his fights!
He went on to give a more detailed explanation… But he summed it up simply that when the student is training for a competition/fight or learning in general... that training in the Gi prepares you for 100% of every angle, every grip, every submission, every takedown, every control technique! While training or preparing without the use of a Gi only will allow you about 20% of the same situations.
So I guess what you have to ask yourself is if you're wanting to be a "complete student", do you want to be 100% prepared or only 20% prepared?
If it's good for Master Rickson Gracie… i'm going to guess that same philosophy would be effective for most others as well.
Thanks to Chris Burns and
Tatami Fightwear for allowing the use of his illustrations in this article.
Written by: Bob Donaghy
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